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Contract situation

According to Transfermarkt, the following players are out of contract at the end of this season, in addition to our captain Matt Grimes:

Ben Hamer

Jake Bidwell

Kyle Naughton

Korey Smith

Dan Williams

Jamie Paterson

Yan Dhanda

Is this correct, and does anyone know what the status of their contract negotiations (if any) might be?

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Comments

  • Paterson signed on a one year deal with an option for another year, so I can't see there being any pressure to resolve his contract situation before the end of this season.

    Cadleigh
  • No insight into negotiations here, just my opinions:

    Grimes can go in January, if we can get a quid for him that is. I wouldn’t renew his contract as his heart’s clearly not in it, he’s overrated anyway.

    Hamer, we should extend. Ok keeper for this season, strong backup for next.

    Bidwell, extend. He’s not the best attacking fullback in the world but he’s pretty solid. Can we realistically attract better than him to our club.

    Naughton, extend. Once a scapegoat in our glory days, now my strongest contender for captain. Mr reliable still going strong and adapting every season.

    Korey Smith, extend. Maybe just by one year.

    Dan Williams, extend. Gotta get him down on a long term contract, could be the future of our midfield.

    Paterson, a bit too early to tell but I wouldn’t extend. However he has been pretty decent at times so I hope he fully proves his worth.

    Dhanda, sell in January if anyone will pay. If not, hopefully he can find a new club in the summer.

    Cadleigh
  • Just to add some more perspective, our current senior squad looks like this:

    2 goalkeepers (1 out of contract at the end of this season)

    5 centrebacks (1 loanee)

    2 left backs (1 out of contract)

    2 right backs (1 out of contract)

    1 wingback (loanee)

    6 central midfielders (3 out of contract)

    3 attacking midfielders (1 out of contract)

    1 winger (likely to go out on loan or be sold)

    3 strikers

    If you are aiming for a senior squad of 25 and you only plan to play the following positions, how many would you aim for in each role?

    GK

    CB

    WB

    CM

    AM

    CF

  • Assuming he decides to stay or doesn't get a better offer

  • Strictly speaking, it's not normally the player's choice. If the club decide to take up the option then he will be under contract.

  • there's only one player in that list that is important to extend his contract now. Dan Williams.

    Yan has a contract offer already. He's chose, for whatever reason - playing time I imagine - not to sign it.

    Patterson has a clause to extent, which no doubt will be triggered.

    The rest are of an age that we can wait to see where we are at the end of the season and which division we are in.

    No need to go extending these contracts for the over 30s now. Just like Kyle last season. Wait until the end of the season, and make a decision then.

    Rhydian
  • I agree with you and @Rhydian, but is it normal for us to reach this stage in a season with one third of the entire squad running down their contracts? I can remember the odd seasoned pro in the past like Routledge, or as you mentioned, Naughton last season, but eight feels like a lot.

  • If RM is to develop his squad with the players he wants, then it is inevitable that players he doesn't consider to be part of his long term plans will be released. Only he will know how many in that list falls into that category. However, I can see at least 4/5 of that list not being in his long term plans

  • yes and no. but this is all part of the reset button.

    We had a similar situation this summer, gone.

    But I dare say if there are any of those older names that Martin feels are instrumental in us whatever division we are in, then they could be offered a new short term contract. But I doubt it, at this point.

    For me the only one I see would be Naughton, because of his PL experience, his versatility and ability.

    For Dan, that's something that obviously needs fixing.

    Yan, like I said, there's been a contract on the table since January. Other than pay him off, he's here until he signs it, is sold in January, or leaves next summer.

    I think we need to get used to this. Unless the player has a decent resale value, and that value is met (like Grimes), the club will run contracts down. This is down to budgets, revenues hit by Covid, and watching which players are coming through the U23s, and likely to break into the first team next season.

    SeaJack
  • Age-wise, the out of contract players are:

    Dan Williams 20

    Yan Dhanda 22

    Matt Grimes 26

    Jake Bidwell 28

    Jamie Paterson 29

    Korey Smith 30

    Kyle Naughton 32

    Ben Hamer 33

    I don't think age should be a factor in any of those cases. 33 is not old for a goalkeeper and 32 is a perfectly respectable age for a defender.

  • Surely age would be a factor insomuch that generally, older players may be less able (or indeed willing) to adapt to the style of play demanded by RM.

  • And these are the number of starts each player who is at risk of not being with us next season has had so far:

    Dan Williams 0                                              

    Yan Dhanda 1

    Korey Smith 2

    Rhys Williams 2

    Ben Hamer 6

    Ethan Laird 6

    Kyle Naughton 7

    Jake Bidwell 9

    Jamie Paterson 10

    Matt Grimes 11

    I make that 44% of our starts. That's a big turnover in one season.

  • I'm not sure there's any evidence that the ability to learn deteriorates significantly the minute you hit 30. Or that stubborness increases. It used to be thought that brain plasticity peaks in your early 20s but that's now discredited.

  • Ben Hamer - Extend

    Jake Bidwell - Extend or sell in Jan

    Kyle Naughton - Extend

    Korey Smith Extend or sell in Jan

    Dan Williams - Long Contract now.

    Jamie Paterson - Extend or brand new contract

    Yan Dhanda - sell in Jan

  • It's not the ability for the brain to learn after 30 that I'm referring to, it's more case of whether or not at an advanced age (in footballing terms) players have the time or ability to develop new skills which may be totally alien to them. They may also not believe in the changes that RM are trying to introduce and therefore be reluctant to change.

  • Cadleigh,

    You need to take a step back and look hard at that list and actually work out how many of them are actually worth keeping. The two loanees can be replaced, while the likes of Dhanda, Smith, Hamer and Bidwell will be looked at by RM as whether he is confident to replace them with better, younger players or are worth an extension. Swans will obviously take up their option on Paterson while Dan will be seriously misled by his agent if he can continue his education anywhere better. For Naughton, like Routledge, the curtain is coming down on his career and where else would he get a better place while Grimes, if he goes, he goes, and will be replaced, either in January, or in the close season.

    deekay
  • Exactly Colin.

    It's a mixture of business and progression. And covid's impact on finances can not be overlooked.

    If better players or younger ones with more pace are available next summer, for low or no fees, and they have a subsequent sell on value, then it's a no-brainer.

    Patterson has a clause. He'll be renewed. I wouldn't be surprised, if he carries on, they'll trigger it sooner than next summer.

    Hamer I can see staying. Also Kyle.

    Dan would be mad to go now . If Grimes doesn't sign an extension he has a place in CM there for the taking. I can see downes pushed a bit more forward.

    Jake a solid pro. If he had pace he's young enough for a new deal. If we miraculously went up, he and Smith would be goners.

    SeaJack
  • edited October 17

    After today, Patterson is probably in the boardroom right now, signing the new extension 😀

    Mark_Jack_LondonJackaremeSeaJack
  • If a manager joins on 1 July and institutes a new way of playing, all team members who are in place on that day have an equal amount of time to get used to whatever the manager requires, regardless of their age. So that closes down the 'older players have less time' argument. Unless you think that it takes years to learn something new, in which case it's not worth trying if you want to adopt it in the coming season.

    I've already said that the ability to learn does not diminish with age, so that's the age-related ability argument out the window.

    And as I said before, stubborness does not increase with age, it's more a question of personality. There are plenty of 18 year olds who think they know better than the manager, as well as 30 year olds.

    Older players are arguably more likely to have experienced multiple different playing styles at a senior level, so perhaps more likely to be able to adapt.

    SeaJack
  • Indeed Colin. That is why I agreed with @Rhydian that we should sign Dan Williams up to a long-term contract asap and extend Hamer and Naughton. Clearly I was wrong not to include Paterson in my prefered starting XI for today. I'm probably not the only person to make that mistake but I'll put my hand up to it - the guy has talent.

    At no point did I argue that we should retain the lot, I merely asked if anyone knew where we were at with contract negotations and expressed surprise that so many players were at risk of leaving at once. On the whole, teams that turn over half of their starting line-up usually struggle as a result.

  • Cadleigh,

    am I right in saying that since we left the PL, every following season has seen us have a large turnover of playing staff, yet we havn't done too badly and havn't struggled, have we?

  • I genuinely don't know how many players have turned over season on season for the last three years. Be interesting to know.

  • In my opinion recruitment this season has been excellent , Piroe, Downes , Paterson , Ntcham .

    Piroe looks a good finisher , looks really cool in front of goal

    Downes improving with every game .

    Paterson scoring and creating goals something we have missed for many seasons,

    Ntcham has the ability to be a very good player for this league .

    So that's 4 good signings a couple of transfer windows could see us in a good place

    RhydianSeaJack

  • Cadleigh,

    there have been posters moaning about the high percentage of players coming to the end of their contract every season since we left the PL.

  • Earlier in this thread I said:

    “Paterson, a bit too early to tell but I wouldn’t extend. However he has been pretty decent at times so I hope he fully proves his worth.”

    Who would have thought that in just one game he would completely prove his worth, and make me eat my words in doubting him.

    CadleighJackRaven
  • I don’t recall that. Maybe you can share some examples?

  • I agree. Scott played a blinder in the last transfer window.

  • 2018/19

    free transfers:

    • Bony
    • Ki
    • Angel
    • Gorre

    2019/20

    • Borja
    • Narsingh
    • Fer
    • King
    • Biabi

    2020/21

    • Mulder
    • CBR
    • VdH
    • Jeff
    • Nathan

    2021/22

    • Ayew
    • Freeman
    • Routs (retired)
    • John
    • Byers

    so next summer isnt far off where we have been the last 4 seasons. I can see a couple of those out of contract getting 1 year extensions. And Dan a long term contract. So a good chance 3 or 4 will go again.

  • @Cadleigh

    Can I respectfully suggest that you have a read of this post again and reflect on what you have said. I have expressed a view on whether or not age may play a part in RM's decision to offer new contracts to those listed. I have given my reasons for expressing those views and I stand by them.

    However, because the mighty Cadleigh has views which differ from mine, he has decided that the argument is closed down. Also, because you had already said that the ability to learn does not diminish with age, then that argument also has to go out of the window.

    I would also suggest that you have another read of all my posts in this thread. You have deliberately or otherwise, totally misrepresented what I have said and ignored the fact that I actually agree with you in reference to the ability of the brain to learn after 30.

    As for your comment 'Unless you think that it takes years to learn something new, in which case it's not worth trying if you want to adopt it in the coming season.' The first part will certainly be true for some players . Some players will adapt very quickly, some may take more than a season, if ever. RM may look at a player who is the wrong side of 30 and who may or may not have the ability to adapt and even then it may take a season or more to make those changes and think that it isn't worth extending his contract if there is only a season or more left in the tank at the end of it, so it isn't worth giving him an extension. So in those circumstances age is definitely a factor. In which case my 'argument' has not been closed down and is very much an active argument.

    As for the second part of that sentence, I really don't know where you're coming from with such a ridiculous comment. I have been absolutely clear since RM arrived that I support what he is trying to achieve and that we have to give him time and several transfer windows to develop his philosophy.

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